Re: Compare Gypsy Cards and Lenormand

Stanze on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:44 am

I would put Coffin and Death together as well, as they both means changes/endings/transformations. And Bear could also be Judge as it shows authority.

Tree could be Malady but also Constancy as it gives the idea of roots.

Stanze

PS: My Gipsy cards have Dutch - English and French as languages. There the Message is Verandering in Dutch which means "Changes". In this way it could be related to Storks. By the way, does the Message also means changes in a certain way ?

**Kapherus** on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:14 pm

Stanze wrote:
PS: My Gipsy cards have Dutch - English and French as languages. There the Message is Verandering in Dutch which means "Changes". In this way it could be related to Storks. By the way, does the Message also means changes in a certain way ?

Hi Stanze,

It's interesting that the Message card is 'changes' in the Dutch version of the deck. Hermes is the messenger of the gods, but he's also associated with 'air' which rules news, travel, commerce, changes, etc., so it's not so surprising that all of these ideas can be covered by this card.

I think Storks makes sense for this aspect of Message, but Rider too since it can also denote change.

Kaph

rif on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:28 pm

I'm not sure I see a lot of value in this exercise. Is this just for fun? Maybe it helps to get a grip on the deck one isn't familiar with. But even with my limited knowledge of the Gypsy cards, I have seen very difference nuances of meaning for those cards, which I don't think relate fully to the Lenormand.

33. Key - Ecclesiastic struck my mind when reading the list. I think Ecclesiastic has shades of intelligence, religion, and decisions. None of these come under Key as I read it in Lenormand.

**Kapherus** on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:44 pm

rif wrote:I'm not sure I see a lot of value in this exercise. Is this just for fun? Maybe it helps to get a grip on the deck one isn't familiar with. But even with my limited knowledge of the Gypsy cards, I have seen very difference nuances of meaning for those cards, which I don't think relate fully to the Lenormand.

Hi rif,

I agree wholeheartedly that the two oracles do not correspond perfectly, but I think the exercise can be helpful for gaining a better understanding of the cards in both systems based on the contrasts as well as the similarities. For example, I don't normally think of Rider as 'change,' but Stanze's comments prompted me to check some resources, and I found that Sylvie provides that meaning for Rider.

rif wrote:33. Key - Ecclesiastic struck my mind when reading the list. I think Ecclesiastic has shades of intelligence, religion, and decisions. None of these come under Key as I read it in Lenormand.

My choice of Key for Ecclesiastic was based on the basic idea that both can refer to spirituality. Of course, this idea is based on the meanings I use for each card, which I know may not agree with the meanings used by others. This is why I thought sharing ideas about the similarities and differences between the two oracles would be interesting. Smile

Kaph

Stanze on Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:41 pm

Considering the idea of Spirituality for the Ecclesiatic I'm tending to compare it with Cross as well. This does not always means pain and suffering but also Faith and Christianity/religiosity.

Stanze

Contessa on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:07 pm

I like constancy as a correspondent for the tree.

The biggest problem that I have had making these comparisons is that it's confused me later. The gypsy letter is a very short time frame similar to the rider or the clover in the Lenormand. I had accidentally transposed this time frame in my mind with the Lenormand letter which caused me some grief when I was reading last year.

The Ecclesiastic actually can have some qualities of the Ring based on what I've read. Oaths and binding are very much a part of both cards. I like the ecclesiastic as the stork also. If you view the stork as "bringing" as opposed to "changing" it fits.